Curse

**cosyfiep** · Mar 04, 2011, 07:00 AM // 07:00

lol augury rock--hadnt even checked that

so yeah, that would NOT be a good one for grouping ---

UnChosen · Mar 04, 2011, 07:13 AM // 07:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lasai

People are still playing the game. Whether they are grouping or not really does not affect the failure or success of GW, or indicate impending death of the game. The people that are playing the game with 7 heros are doing just that.. playing the game. Their way.

Heartily sick of the suggestions to somehow reward/incentivize pugging, as if saving that sole aspect of gameplay would make much of an impact at all on numbers of people completing missions.

The casual gamer is the one with the checkbook. Companies know this, and the trend is to make casual gaming more a part of any game. People do NOT want to log in for their 2 hour session and waste it all on failed human groups and searching for same.

In GW, it is a choice. Period. Choices should be equally valid and not offer any incentive via items, exp, gold, faction or any other generated item. It is a choice.. nothing about playing human groups entitles anyone to special consideration.

IF Embark is a fail, it is only because people who want to group with players are in the Minority. People are making a different choice.. same as the one some made with full hench groups, H/H groups, and now full Hero groups.

You can bemoan the death of player grouping all you want.. but that is all it is.. not the death of the game. Get over it. It is a trend in most games and it is not going away.

With that logic....please give me a god mode button. Don't worry, I'm sure that a lot of people would love it and choose it, that people who don't want it would be in the minority. Its also a choice and people who wants to use normal skill should not be given consideration. /sarcasm

Its amazing that people think that having a ridiculously powerful team build won't somehow influence people who original prefer human parties. That people came into GW choosing either human groups or AI and never change after that...

Quote:

In GW, it is a choice. Period. Choices should be equally valid and not offer any incentive via items, exp, gold, faction or any other generated item. It is a choice.. nothing about playing human groups entitles anyone to special consideration.

See, the point is that it is NOT equally valid. Outside of speed clears, PvE skills and "human intelligence" rarely overcome the advantage of no formation time and beginning an area 10 minutes before a human party even get their first monk.

What would be equally valid would be that when the human party finally begin their mission 15 minutes after the guy with heroes already left....they wouldn't be disadvantaged in anyway. Either by making human parties powerful enough to speed ahead 15 minutes (overpowered), or have incentives that would somewhat compensate for the lost time just sitting in an outpost.

P.S. I supported the 7 heroes because I want to make some creative builds.

davehall · Mar 04, 2011, 07:14 AM // 07:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by placetoguru

in my opinion i would like the area to be accessible for PVP characters and the 'P' party search be linked to all PVP areas including Guild halls turning the area into a central hub for ALL pvp and pve, and a players search note gets put into a sub category with names like HA, GVG, FARMING, TITLEs etc. i think with the search linked with different places so that someone in their guild hall can search for a player who is waiting in embark beach would create a very strong push for PVP in general and help it pick up again letting people find groups much more easily.

Unless the live team devise some way to allow players to control or toggle their skill bars between PvE and PvP versions of skills, it would be next to impossible for parties to work out their skillbars before the start of a mission or quest or PvP.

Imaginos · Mar 04, 2011, 07:49 AM // 07:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by dancing gnome

Anyone else think it was a major failure that the Z Mission on launch day for the biggest tool in PuGing for GW was Augury Rock?

I'm guessing it's just a seriously unfortunate coincidence but that could be why Embark Beach has failed so far. Maybe over the weekend we will see it picking up in popularity for it's actual use.

^This

Embark will become a trade hud and yet still be used for grouping. Anet should have implemented a market years ago.

Suggestions:

Rip the market code out of gw2 and do a rewrite to it for gw1 and add it in. OR
Add in an Inscription merchant and an Upgrade merchant. Both would buy/sell their respective items that are perfect and -1, -2. That would at least help cut down on the trade spam. Maybe even a minipet merchant, though some of those sell for far more then 100k.
In either case, also increase the number of characters you can type for a wts/wtb so that the player-trade window will actually be useful instead of the pathetic amount of characters that are available to try and sell something currently.

bhavv · Mar 04, 2011, 07:59 AM // 07:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lasai

People are still playing the game. Whether they are grouping or not really does not affect the failure or success of GW, or indicate impending death of the game. The people that are playing the game with 7 heros are doing just that.. playing the game. Their way.

This update is actually bound to bring lots of players back to the game, and lots of people are buying the full 8 mercenary pack.

As you implied, more people playing and more money for Anet is the complete opposite to a game dying.

GW has always been a game that most people have wanted to play on their own with their own custom builds. Its purely due to the nature of the game having so much to do and so many skill options and possible builds to try out, and that you could never freely experiment and try out your own team builds that made so many people crave to be able to play the game with a full hero team.

Thats here now, and from what we can see with the communities response, people who play this game are absolutely loving the full hero parties.

Improvavel · Mar 04, 2011, 08:07 AM // 08:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by UnChosen

With that logic....please give me a god mode button. Don't worry, I'm sure that a lot of people would love it and choose it, that people who don't want it would be in the minority. Its also a choice and people who wants to use normal skill should not be given consideration. /sarcasm

Its amazing that people think that having a ridiculously powerful team build won't somehow influence people who original prefer human parties. That people came into GW choosing either human groups or AI and never change after that...

See, the point is that it is NOT equally valid. Outside of speed clears, PvE skills and "human intelligence" rarely overcome the advantage of no formation time and beginning an area 10 minutes before a human party even get their first monk.

What would be equally valid would be that when the human party finally begin their mission 15 minutes after the guy with heroes already left....they wouldn't be disadvantaged in anyway. Either by making human parties powerful enough to speed ahead 15 minutes (overpowered), or have incentives that would somewhat compensate for the lost time just sitting in an outpost.

P.S. I supported the 7 heroes because I want to make some creative builds.

Please give me heroes that can make jokes, I can meet to have a meal, I can talk on TS, etc. (yep, I have done all that)

Ah, socializing and pugging is only for more game rewards, you say... well SC gives the better game rewards, so...

And let us conveniently forget all the time and money (which equals time) customizing the hundreds of heroes with runes, weapons, etc.

The problem of forming a full human party is a question of player density. Places with good rewards will concentrate more players (that is why zaishen quests were added). Additionally there is guilds and now you have a central hub in embark beach.

Next people will forbid trading because people sit there instead of pugging to get money and items...

Missing HB · Mar 04, 2011, 08:27 AM // 08:27

This was so predictable really.. People go sell items where there are most people it's obvious. And i told you that 7 hero don't fit with embark bay , dunno why many said i was clueless....

Lasai · Mar 04, 2011, 12:15 PM // 12:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by UnChosen

With that logic....please give me a god mode button. Don't worry, I'm sure that a lot of people would love it and choose it, that people who don't want it would be in the minority. Its also a choice and people who wants to use normal skill should not be given consideration. /sarcasm

Its amazing that people think that having a ridiculously powerful team build won't somehow influence people who original prefer human parties. That people came into GW choosing either human groups or AI and never change after that...

See, the point is that it is NOT equally valid. Outside of speed clears, PvE skills and "human intelligence" rarely overcome the advantage of no formation time and beginning an area 10 minutes before a human party even get their first monk.

What would be equally valid would be that when the human party finally begin their mission 15 minutes after the guy with heroes already left....they wouldn't be disadvantaged in anyway. Either by making human parties powerful enough to speed ahead 15 minutes (overpowered), or have incentives that would somewhat compensate for the lost time just sitting in an outpost.

P.S. I supported the 7 heroes because I want to make some creative builds.

A.. choosing between two allowable game modes, NPC grouping or Human grouping, a choice that has been in game since launch, hardly equates to asking for a god mode button.

B.. Your argument re "ridiculously overpowered team" is laughable applied to Heros..no hero team ever assembled would match the same set of Player professions with pve Skills.. so, what would you label a human team? Just Curious.

C.. Omgosh.. you spent 15 more mins in outpost assembling your MORE than "ridiculously overpowered team".. and you want to make some equity argument using that example.. wow. Astounding Logic.

Both types of teams have advantages.. and drawbacks. By making a choice you accept both. The NPC team will never have the power and flexibility of the human team. The human team will always be harder to assemble. Deal. Neither choice should receive incentive rewards or bonus to encourage one choice over the other.

Zahr Dalsk · Mar 04, 2011, 12:24 PM // 12:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by UnChosen

With that logic....please give me a god mode button. Don't worry, I'm sure that a lot of people would love it and choose it, that people who don't want it would be in the minority. Its also a choice and people who wants to use normal skill should not be given consideration. /sarcasm

Its amazing that people think that having a ridiculously powerful team build won't somehow influence people who original prefer human parties. That people came into GW choosing either human groups or AI and never change after that...

See, the point is that it is NOT equally valid. Outside of speed clears, PvE skills and "human intelligence" rarely overcome the advantage of no formation time and beginning an area 10 minutes before a human party even get their first monk.

What would be equally valid would be that when the human party finally begin their mission 15 minutes after the guy with heroes already left....they wouldn't be disadvantaged in anyway. Either by making human parties powerful enough to speed ahead 15 minutes (overpowered), or have incentives that would somewhat compensate for the lost time just sitting in an outpost.

P.S. I supported the 7 heroes because I want to make some creative builds.

The only penalty that player groups have is that the average PUG player is stupid and uncooperative.

If you want to buff PUGs to be equal to hero groups... simple, just get PUG players to stop being stupid and uncooperative

UnChosen · Mar 04, 2011, 12:56 PM // 12:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zahr Dalsk

The only penalty that player groups have is that the average PUG player is stupid and uncooperative.

If you want to buff PUGs to be equal to hero groups... simple, just get PUG players to stop being stupid and uncooperative

The more cooperative and coordinated a pug group is....the longer they'll be in an outpost discussing strategies/builds and kicking people who bring bad builds, etc. It still doesn't work out in favour of human parties.

I've had scenarios where my guildie went to a mission with H/h, I stayed in the outpost, got a good pug going, used every broken PvE skills in the book + cons....and somehow the guildie STILL finished the mission before me. The head start is a huge advantage.

Pretty much the only way a human group is better is if they have something unique that H/h can't do, like speed clears or teams involving some broken skill combo like imba or shadow form tanks.

ruk1a · Mar 04, 2011, 03:24 PM // 15:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pheenix Down

Alas, I had such high hopes for it.

LOL. You did? Really?

no you didn't.

anyways anet announced embark beach a long ass time ago you're a little late posting a thread like this because we all knew this was gonna happen when it came out.

aspi · Mar 04, 2011, 03:26 PM // 15:26

Like most mentioned here, there was a sole ZM. There also was the 7 hero party people wanted to try but besides that there was every second or so someone getting there drunk title.
The daily zaishen VQ alone makes it worth my while

dancing gnome · Mar 04, 2011, 03:29 PM // 15:29

It's picking up a bit more. I see a few people looking for groups but either they are struggling as usual or they are afk, because they have been looking for groups for about an hour now.

rb.widow · Mar 04, 2011, 03:31 PM // 15:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by davehall

I think pretty much everyone is likely running off trying their 7-hero parties right now to care about "grouping" -- once the novelty of it wears off you may see EB being used for grouping. But unless the developers give some sort of incentive for people to group I can not see EB being strongly used for that. (May be for the increase the amount of exp. points earned based on number of actually human players in your party for any of the Zaishen Quests.)

Or they could just make it more profitable in the way of drops when you actually take a team, i think they have got so caught up in the scale looting because of Speed Clears etc, that everyone is getting hurt by it now,

My Alliance did 2 UW HM runs the other night ( none speed clear ) first run had 3 ecto drop for the entire party, the 2nd run had about 5 drop, ( not including end chest ) but even drops from that where crap too, i could go down there as a Solo SoS Rit and farm more ecto in 30 mins, than my entire party got in 2 runs, as it stands its just not worth getting a real team to go anywhere.

Painbringer · Mar 04, 2011, 03:32 PM // 15:32

It will work give it time ~ Stop spamming WTS go to a city and panhandle your wears

LifeInfusion · Mar 04, 2011, 03:36 PM // 15:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by I Jonas I

bad idea to introduce something that is supposed to encourage people to group together at the same that you let people have something that discourages it

Not really, because people PUGing are more likely to want to group by choice rather than because they have no other way other than dual account (see UW: show stones).

Also, heroes are still AI limited and can't use cons or res scrolls (a good thing). If you want a warrior (that has SY! and basic use of flail/enraging charge), assassin (that has critical agility), dervish (that uses teardowns properly), mesmer (that hexes properly), ranger (that uses d-shot properly), paragon that does more than Stand your ground/fallback/Go for the eyes, a necro that will wait to cast enfeebling blood/spiteful spirit (or uses MoP properly in general)...

On a human monk your only option is more or less RoJ or AP sin spam.

dancing gnome · Mar 04, 2011, 03:39 PM // 15:39

Who coded the places you can boat travel to this place? It's insanely random and annoying. I can get there from Kamadam but I can't get there from Shing Jea Monastery or Doomlore Shrine?

Make this a boat destination available universally from every outpost in the game.

Improvavel · Mar 04, 2011, 04:46 PM // 16:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by UnChosen

The more cooperative and coordinated a pug group is....the longer they'll be in an outpost discussing strategies/builds and kicking people who bring bad builds, etc. It still doesn't work out in favour of human parties.

I've had scenarios where my guildie went to a mission with H/h, I stayed in the outpost, got a good pug going, used every broken PvE skills in the book + cons....and somehow the guildie STILL finished the mission before me. The head start is a huge advantage.

Pretty much the only way a human group is better is if they have something unique that H/h can't do, like speed clears or teams involving some broken skill combo like imba or shadow form tanks.

Because this game is so hard that if someone brings skill X instead of skill y it is all fubared!

Maybe that is the reason pugging is not popular - if I need to submit my build for approval and spend 15 minutes tweaking said build to do some stupid mission like boreas seabed...

Malganis · Mar 04, 2011, 05:38 PM // 17:38

Sometimes it is FUBAR if someone brings the wrong skill. Pinging just makes sure everyone's build is appropriate for the area, and no one conflicts with each other. Especially Ritualists, and Elementalists who bring fire builds against Destroyers or Catacombs of Kathandrax.

Or I've changed my build around to suit the area I was just in, and forget to change it back when I group up for the ZM. Pinging lets everyone know I'm making a mistake and need to adjust my build. It also identifies who's bringing rez skills, etc.

Yes it takes a little extra time, but its worth it to make sure the group has the best chance of survival. Its also worth it to talk to the group beforehand, so you dont get people who take the quest in the Stygian Veil while everyone else is dropping their 1k for the cons.

Skyy High · Mar 04, 2011, 05:44 PM // 17:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by dancing gnome

Anyone else think it was a major failure that the Z Mission on launch day for the biggest tool in PuGing for GW was Augury Rock?

I'm guessing it's just a seriously unfortunate coincidence but that could be why Embark Beach has failed so far. Maybe over the weekend we will see it picking up in popularity for it's actual use.

Heh, yes, that's hilarious.